Kushiel’s Chosen | Books and travelling with Lynn

Kushiel’s Chosen by Jacqueline Carey, readalong, final chapters

Posted On 13 September 2015

Filed under Book Reviews
Tags: Jacqueline Carey, Kushiel's Chosen, Readalong

Today is the final week of our readalong for Kushiel’s Chosen. This week Emily at Emma Wolf is hosting. As you would expect – spoilers lurk below – so beware. Please feel free to jump in on the comments (clearly it’s a bit late to join in the readalong!). However, we are proposing a readalong for book No.3 and all are welcome so if you want to join that readalong then let me know in the comments and we can add you to the list. This week’s questions and answers below:

1. Earlier in the book, Phedre promised to rid the temple of Asherat of corruption. Here we see her speaking for the goddess. Is this what you had in mind? Is Phedre channeling the goddess or using her own words? Was her act a sign from the goddess, as Cesare Stregazza said, or merely a trick, as Marie-Celeste said? (I realize this is very similar to Lynn’s question from last week. I read ahead and wrote these questions early. I flatter myself to think that great minds think alike.)

Haha – I like this question – I think it’s good that we look at this again with the benefit of having now read it. Yeah, I don’t think she’s channeling the goddess to be honest – she’s using her own words, in fact, didn’t she mention something about having been practising what she was going to say just before she stood up? Even so, her actions have the same effect and do actually help to cleanse the temple. I do think that Phedre feels she has made a connection with Asherat and more than that she has made a promise to help and that’s what she feels she’s doing.

2. Ysandre offers (or demands) to take Imriel into her own household to spare him the “taint” of being a traitor’s son. What do you think of this? Would an Imriel raised by Ysandre be welcomed by the people as the heir to the throne? Or would the people remember Melisande’s treachery when they see her son?

I thought that was such a great gesture. How well it would work would remain to be seen but I think if anybody is capable of undertaking that in the proper spirit it would be Ysandre. As to being welcomed by the people – I think so actually. I think they would see the example set by Ysandre and would probably be happy with her actions and follow her lead. It’s the nobility that would probably have more of a problem. They seem to be the one who hold very long grudges. They have more at stake after all – money, favour, lands – and they’re always positioning so to have a child of Melisande on the throne could possibly cause division – we’ve learnt that some of the nobility don’t like Ysandre’s choice of partner for example. They would probably seek to overthrow Ysandre at any opportunity to raise Imriel up. And there could be others who have an eye on the throne themselves and so wouldn’t take kindly to Melisande’s child being raised to that purpose.

3. What do you think of Melisande taking sanctuary in the temple to Asherat and the Doge allowing it? Is it blasphemous? Ysandre asks Phedre what she can expect from Melisande, and Phedre cannot answer. What do you expect from Melisande?

I just knew she’d wriggle out of trouble somehow. She always has all her bases covered and even now – she’s not going to be worried. She is constantly thinking of how to manipulate a situation. She’s safe, her son is safe so her end game will still be the same. We know that she won’t take defeat so it stands to reason that she’s now thinking of another way to get her son on the throne. As to the Doge allowing her to take sanctuary. I think that he’s also edging his bets. Melisande has a son who could be the next heir – it doesn’t really do to burn all your bridges and clearly she has supporters. For me, he’s just keeping his options open and waiting for the best time to jump so he can see what direction to jump in.

4. After seeing his fellow Cassiline Brother attempt to assassinate their charge in La Serenissima, Brys no Rinforte is badly shaken and is unable to accompany Ysandre through the Royal Army and into the City of Elua. What do you make of this? Phedre called it “defection,” which, according to dictionary.com, has two meanings: 1) desertion from allegiance, loyalty, duty, or the like. Apostasy; and 2) failure, lack, loss. What do you think of Phedre’s description? Phedre also tells us that Ysandre dismissed the Cassilines from her service. What share of the blame does Brys deserve for Ysandre’s decision? What do you think of the irony that Cassiline Brothers have become more popular among D’angelines?

It was unusual and even now I’m not quite sure what to make of it. I’m not sure whether Rinforte was suffering from similar feelings to those we’ve often witnessed in Joscelin where he beats himself up over any type of failure. Or, whether there’s something else underlying it and he actually was more aware of what was going to happen and has actually defected – in the way of changing allegiance. If this was Joscelin, for example, I think he would be suffering tremendous guilt but I also think he would want to make reparation so I think he would want to accompany Ysandre into Elua. It makes me wonder whether Rinforte has jumped ship. You can’t really blame Ysandre for dismissing the Cassilines – it must feel like a terrible betrayal to have those that you trust so implicitly turn against you. I think Ysandre will need to chose very carefully from now on those people that she chooses to to surround herself with.

5. The Rebbe Nahum ben Isaac said “you Children of Elua are too quick to forget how the love you invoke may cut like a blade.” What do you think? Is Elua a gentle, loving god or is the rebbe right?

I think this is a great question. it raises the ups and downs and upsets that Phedre and Joscelin have been inflicting on each other. This whole idea of free love for example, it’s an ideal but it’s difficult to completely sign up to. At the end of the day it would be difficult to share somebody who you love, at least I think it would. I think the Rebbe makes a very clever remark for more reasons than one. It is easy to hurt someone you love – as we’ve seen with Joscelin. Also, I think to an extent, the ‘children of Elua’ are perhaps a little bit imperious in that they seem unaware of the love they inspire in others and therefore the fact that they have the ability to hurt those people without even really being aware of it. Joscelin is more often than not completely unaware of the feelings he creates in others and Phedre, whilst I think she is more aware of the feelings she creates in those around her, seems quite detached from the pain it might inflict. Not that I’m implying that she would deliberately inflict pain on somebody, it’s more that she doesn’t seem to recognise that people will become attached to her.

Other participants:

Allie at Tethyan Books
Lisa at Over the Effing Rainbow
Grace at Books Without Any Pictures
Nancy at FaeStruck’s Reviews & More
James at James T. Witherspoon
Emily at Emma Wolf
Susan at Dab of Darkness

Kushiel’s Chosen by Jacqueline Carey readalong week No.6

Posted On 6 September 2015

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Tags: Jacqueline Carey, Kushiel's Chosen, Readalong week No.6

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Today is week No.6 of our readalong for Kushiel’s Chosen. I am hosting this week so naturally everything has gone a bit pear shaped!! Anyway, the chapters this week were great! As you would expect – spoilers lurk below – so beware. All welcome, if you want to join the readalong or jump in with comments then please do so (here is the SCHEDULE). This week’s questions and answers below:

1. We had a bit of a discussion about Kazan in the previous week’s questions, about his nature, double crossing, etc, and whether Phedre was right to save him. What are your thoughts on Kazan now given these most recent additions. Also, I think we should include his mother in that discussion – it was interesting to finally see her I thought. And, in fact his whole homecoming.

I really enjoyed the change in Kazan this week. I mean, he’s been through the cleansing – and let’s face it, he’s not a changed man, as Phedre pointed out – he’s simply going to continue as previously but now with a clean slate. But I really liked that he confessed into having put Phedre into an impossible situation to force her hand into sleeping with him. I also thought it was good that he recognised that they could have probably saved some trouble if they’d both been a bit more honest and I liked the fact that he recognised that Phedre had saved him more than once and he was now going to stand by her. I thought his homecoming was very touching really and brought home how much his banishment had affected him. I was also thinking about his mum and how she’d cursed him in anger and then probably regretted it very much because she then, in effect, lost both sons. It was good to see that she was so happy to see him – I hope nothing happens to him and he gets to return home.

2. What did you think of the whole ‘tribute’ ship idea – is that your idea of a good plan or your worst nightmare??

I must admit I don’t think I’d like to spend all that time in that confined space – I probably wouldn’t be able to move by the time I was released. The one thing that really occured to me was that if anything had happened to the ship, bad weather or potential sinking Phedre would have remained trapped in there because she’d be the last person on everyone’s minds. Not my idea of fun to be honest but a good idea that put me a bit in mind of a Trojan horse.

3. Let’s just talk about the reunion with Joscelin and Phedre. Oh my word! More to the point the changes in both of them and how you think their relationship will now move forward.

This week was so touching – I practically had tears in my eyes. The reunion with Phedre and Joscelin was so sweet. And Ti-Phillipe as well. I think that Phedre and Joscelin have been through such a lot together, they share such a lot of meaningful experiences but I think the experience of Phedre with the cleansing and Joscelin thinking that he’d lost Phedre forever has changed them both – and for the better really. It’s sort of put things in perspective hasn’t it. Joscelin was so annoyed with Phedre that he left her – probably safe in the knowledge that he could see her again anyway, Being faced with the possibility that he couldn’t just walk back into her life was so much more final and finally made him see things differently (not to mention that he was probably feeling terribly guilty). On the other hand, Phedre actually admitted that she’d treated him badly which I think was a big change because to be honest she doesn’t usually come over in that way.

4. Lastly, what do you think Phedre’s plan is – it’s in a temple, she spoke about making retribution in earlier chapters and yet her latest plan seems to have caused gasps of surprise. What do you think we have in store.

I actually haven’t read further on so I really don’t know what to expect here. I’m guessing that by the gasps it involves something a bit shocking and I was thinking as they were using the secret tunnels to appear in the temple that maybe there was going to be some pretense of being a ‘God’ maybe – you know, making a dramatic appearance to distract everyone. But what do I know. I have a strong suspicion that things will get a lot worse before they get better!

I’m excited to be oton the final chapters. I think this has been a great read so far – I admit that I’ve missed Joscelin and I like it better when he steps back into the picture, but, I really do enjoy Carey’s writing and world building. She pays such a lot of attention to detail.

Other participants:

Kushiel’s Chosen by Jacqueline Carey readalong week No.5

Posted On 30 August 2015

Filed under Book Reviews
Tags: Jacqueline Carey, Kushiel's Chosen, Readalong week 5

Comments Dropped 8 responses

Today is week No.5 of our readalong for Kushiel’s Chosen. This week our host is the lovely Susan over at Dab of Darkness. As you would expect – spoilers lurk below – so beware. All welcome, if you want to join the readalong or jump in with comments then please do so (here is the SCHEDULE). This week’s questions and answers below:

1) This week we learn plenty more about Kazan Atrabiades and his personal demon, the kriavbhog. What do you think of this demon and his blood curse?

I was really fascinated at this aspect of the book – in fact I could have happily had a little bit more of that side of the story. It was definitely creepy when Phedre actually saw it.

2) On the island of Dobrek, even Phedre has to admit she had some harsh pre-conceived notions about pirates in general and then Kazan specifically before she was brought to his home. How do you think this experience will affect Phedre going forward?

I think that Phedre can be judgemental at times, but, that being said I suppose we all have preconceived notions when it comes to pirates. As it happens I was just as surprised as Phedre. I thought they treated her, on the whole, very reasonably. They cared for her wounds, gave her clothes and food. I thought Kazan was a bit crafty the way he maneouvered Phedre but, again, at least he gave it a semblance of giving her a choice – which after all was better than the treatment she received at the hands of the Skaldi.

3) Nikanor’s ship returns and Phedre is once again off on the high seas. But, alas, she is not ransomed safely. Were you angry at Kazan for not telling Phedre who she was to ransomed to? Or angry at Phedre for not having told Kazan the whole of it in the first place?

I never saw that double cross coming at all so I was just as surprised as Phedre. It would be easy to think harshly of Kazan under the circumstances but actually I think he made the trade in all fairness, I don’t believe he had any idea that Phedre would be under threat and it stands to reason that he would want his crew back safely. He has no reason to put Phedre’s safe well being above that of his crew really and, only having half the story he had no reason to suspect anything of the sort anyway.

4) Nearly to Epidauro & safety, Phedre can see the kriavbhog is killing Kazan and orders the ship about into the storm. Was there really no other choice?

I don’t think there was another choice really. I could be just incredibly short sighted but I don’t see how else the situation could have been resolved. Well I suppose they could have stayed their course and Kazan would have died but that seems a bit of a sorry way to treat somebody who has actually just saved your life and made a mad dash to escape with you whilst losing a good deal of men and ships along the way.

5) Now in the land of Kriti, we meet Oeneus, Hierophant of the Temenos along with the Kore, Pasiphae. What do you think of these two and the small amount of aid they offer Phedre and Kazan?

Well, they did offer to fix the ship up which is no small thing really. I don’t really know what to make of this situation at the moment. I think I need to read a little further. I guess my first impression of the place is calmness and tranquility, it feels almost meditative. I don’t know why I had that impression – like I say, I need to read on!

6) Kazan enters the thetalos to be cleansed of his blood guilt. Of course, Phedre is pricked by Kushiel to go comfort him as she might. There she faces her own guilty demons. Would you be concerned if you had to pass through the thetalos?

I feel sorry for her to be honest – she’s gone through a lot – but, more to the point a lot of people have been lost along the way. Do I blame Phedre for those deaths – no, not at all. You can’t use inaction as a defense really. If Phedre had stayed holed up in her cosy mansion with Josceline – well, bad things would still have eventually reached her neck of the woods wouldn’t they? Melisande has her plans after all and they will have far reaching effects.

Kushiel’s Chosen by Jacqueline Carey, readalong week No.4

Posted On 23 August 2015

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Tags: Jacqueline Carey, Kushiel's Chosen, readalong week 4

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Today is week No.4 of our readalong for Kushiel’s Chosen. This week our host is the lovely Lisa at Over the Effing Rainbow . As you would expect – spoilers lurk below – so beware. All welcome, if you want to join the readalong or jump in with comments then please do so (here is the SCHEDULE). This week’s questions and answers below:

1. Last week we talked a bit about who might succeed Cesare Stregazza as Doge. This week we learn that he might not be out of the game just yet, after all. What are your thoughts on his discussion and agreement with Phédre?

He’s a wily old bugger isn’t he! I actually didn’t see that coming at all. I actually liked his straight talking and appreciated it that somebody, in this highly political and backstabbing situation, could for once call a spade a spade. But then I felt annoyed with him at the end with his patron’s gift because it made Phedre feel uncomfortable and given how canny he is I think he should have been aware of that – in fact he probably was aware of it which makes me even more annoyed with him because he was using Phedre, so for all his straight talk he’s just as manipulative as the rest.

2. Melisande resurfaces – and right where I did NOT expect to find her! What about you? And what do you think of her latest ambitious designs? When she and Phédre speak again after her capture, Phédre calls her mad; Melisande hints at “playing a god’s game”. Is this ambition or is it in fact madness?

To be honest I was totally gobsmacked! She really is the archetypal evil baddie. I was flummoxed. How on earth does she manage to wrangle herself into these positions where she can manipulate everyone. Excuse me as well – but was there mention of a baby amongst that first scene?? Didn’t see that coming. You have to hand it to Carey – Melisande is a great character. I still don’t totally understand Phedre’s strange intoxication with her mind you – in fact the way her knees turn wobbly and she gets the butterflies, pulse racing, etc, well, what occurred to me when reading the last visit, was that Phedre doesn’t have those love sick feelings about anybody else except Melisande – and they really do read like love sick feelings don’t they? Or is that just me??

3. Things fall apart for Phédre and Joscelin after so much pent-up angst – but our Cassiline isn’t done with her yet, thank goodness! Phédre’s escape from La Dolorosa, and Joscelin’s attempted rescue, is some of the most nail-biting drama we’ve seen yet in this story. Do you think Joscelin will manage to find her, or will he play it smarter and go to Ysandre instead?

Well, I kind of hope he’ll go to Ysandre – not because I want him to abandon Phedre but just because I don’t see how he could possible trail her given her eventual escape! Plus, he has to kind of assume that Phedre will do all in her power to return to Ysandre in which case if he does the same then they’re bound to meet. Assuming of course that he doesn’t believe her to be dead and go off in a massive depression!! I’m guessing that he’s already totally berating himself for her capture anyway – not to mention the deaths of Remy and Fortun – that was so sad, I can’t believe it even now.

4. New character alert! What are your initial impressions of Kazan and Glaukos? How much trouble is Phédre in this time?

I like this new element. It’s going to be very interesting. Pirates. It was interesting the way the men on board were superstitious about Phedre – there always seems to be strange superstitions about women on board ships – sailors never seem to like it do they. I suppose picking a beautiful woman out of the ocean must be a little unnerving though. There certainly doesn’t seem to be any love lost between the Illyrians and Terre d’Ange – hardly surprising given that the Illyrians sought help and didn’t receive any in their hour of need. I guess you would feel bitter – and it does make you wonder. We’ve all noted that Phedre can be a little conceited sometimes haven’t we? Kazan’s comments when Phedre asked if he could speak Caerdicci were quite telling.

Part of me wonders if, now she’s out at sea, she might be able to manipulate a situation that takes her to Hyacinthe? I hope so. Even though she hasn’t really made any progress on coming up with a solution to free him yet I would like to see him being brought back into the story.

This week’s reading was very tense – I couldn’t help wondering about what Phedre thought of her captivity and whether she regretted putting herself back into the middle of the intrigue. She probably didn’t though – she seems to thrive in these situations.

The other participants are below – check out their answers too:

Kushiel’s Chosen by Jacqueline Carey, readalong week No.3

Posted On 16 August 2015

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Tags: Jacqueline Carey, Kushiel's Chosen, Readalong Week No.3

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Today is week No.3 of our readalong for Kushiel’s Chosen. This week our host is Allie at Tethyan Books . As you would expect – spoilers lurk below – so beware. All welcome, if you want to join the readalong or jump in with comments then please do so (here is the SCHEDULE). Questions and answers below.

1. Do you think Joscelin might have really considered using the “terminus” in the fight between the Unforgiven and the Yeshuites? How deep do you think his loyalty to the Yeshuite people goes, and why do you think he feels so driven to arm, train and protect them?

I don’t think he was considering the terminus to be honest. I thought his explanation to Phedre sounded reasonable.

I admit this whole issue with the Yeshuites puzzles me very much – other than that he seems to have found a new cause which also seems to be something that he needs himself – I’m not sure where it all came from but clearly it’s something he’s totally thrown himself into.

2. What do think of the differences between the culture of La Serenissima and the City of Elua, and the differences in how they conduct their political intrigue? Who would you favor for the next Doge?

I suppose La Serenissima is based on Venice so the differences don’t surprise me really. The fighting for example put me in mind of performances of Romeo and Juliet where the Montagus and Capulets fight in the street – did anybody else have that imagery running through their heads. In that respect I’m therefore guessing that the people of Serenissima are very passionate, they probably talk and argue quite loudly, they like to parade of an evening, they’re probably very ostentatious in their enjoyment – be so whatever that may be, they’re basically passionate about everything. I love it. They’re very different from the people of Elua who to a certain extent in this world seem very relaxed by comparison. I literally don’t have the first notion who would be the next Doge.

3. What do you think of Phedre’s plan to play along with Severio’s romancing? Do you think he is approaching the matter with more sincerity than his parents?

I find it really quite sweet to be honest – he seems to be totally sincere and it’s very touching. It’s also interesting to see how Phedre responds – thinking about it, she’s never been courted before so it’s really something of a novelty for her. I bet she’s never even considered being courted by a potential suitor. It’s quite a fascinating aspect of the story and makes you stop in your tracks and realise just how very different Phedre’s life has been so far.

4. There is a lot of fortune-telling in this section, from the Oracle in the temple to the astrologer. What do you make of the Oracle’s answer to Phedre? Why do you think the astrologer killed himself, and do you think he would he have been able to lead them to Melisande?

The Oracle’s answer was one of those answers that I kind of expected. In other words I have no idea what it means and it’s vague enough to make it appear to be real when anything happens in the future. I loved the observation that of course you find something in the last place you look! It made me have a proper giggle (also because I was reading it in a different way – I was taking it more that Phedre will not think of the place to look until a last resort – even so, it’s still true, once you find something you do stop looking! Still funny even now. I can’t believe that the astrologer killed himself – it’s like a self fulfilling prophecy – he predicted his own death if he crossed Melisande and so decided to kill himself so that couldn’t happen. Quite bizarre really.

5. Joscelin and Phedre meet a couple who have made compromises in order to build a happy life together. What do you think of their family, and does their example give any hope for Phedre and Joscelin’s future?

There’s is a puzzling relationship and it will be interesting to see how it moves forward. I admit that I really like the character Joscelin and I would be very sad to see him leave these stories so I seriously hope that they can find a way. But, all that being said, could I be any more chilled out about what he’s going through – probably not. It’s a big ask really to love somebody but to watch them go and have these assignations with others. I guess it boils down to the difference between making love and having sex and whether Joscelin can see it in that way.

The other participants are below – check out their answers too: