Foundation and Empire by Isaac Asimov, Group readalong part 1 Chapters 1 – 13
29 January 2012
Filed under Book Reviews
Tags: Foundation and Empire, Isaac Asimov, Vintage Sci Fi
This week I picked up Foundation and Empire as part of a group read along being hosted by Carl at Stainless Steel Droppings. We’ve read Chapters 1-13 and the questions and discussion points are below. If you’re not taking part but are interested head on over to Carl’s site and check it out! I should also say that if you haven’t read this or the previous novel, Foundation, then spoilers may be contained below.
1. In the opening chapters of Foundation and Empire we get to see things from the Imperial side. What are your thoughts on this part of the book? Were you surprised to find parts of the Galactic Empire that still seemed to be thriving?
It puts me in mind very much of the earlier comments made after the first readalong comparing the Empire with that of the Roman Empire. We have an Emperor who is constantly aware of the threat to his life from the ‘next’ strong general (which is how the current Emperor came to rule after all). Mistrust and jealousy are rife. And we have this sort of spoiled and pampered planet that actually contributes virtually nothing to anything and by sheer brute force has the surrounding planets subservient to it’s needs. Strangely, even though it seems to be thriving it isn’t really. It’s losing any sort of knowledge that it once had and is just a hotbed of maneouvering, bribery, manipulation and internal politics with the Emperor sat in the middle of his web ultimately trusting no one.
2. The examination of psychohistory continues in this book. What are your thoughts about the statement that was made: “Seldon’s laws help those who help themselves” in light of our previous discussions about Seldon, his predictions, and the interaction of the individuals that we are exposed to in the story?
Psychohistory was explored a bit more this time round and I suppose it was shown that the actions of the individuals aren’t necessarily influencing the outcomes. But, even though that might be the case, I do think Seldon’s laws help those who help themselves. Basically there are always people who are quick to see and take advantage of a situation if possible and the predictions by Seldon helped those people to be in a position to do so.
3. How do you feel about Devers, Barr and Bel Riose? Did you like this section of the book and/or these characters? Was there anything about their stories that stood out to you, entertained you, annoyed you?
I really liked Devers and Barr and thought they were a really good pair to read about. I enjoyed their partnership. Devers insinuating his way into Riose’s captivity and behaving as though he knew nothing but all along with his own agenda and Barr who was just totally laid back in his confidence that nothing would change the outcome. Although, even though Barr insisted throughout that the Empire would fail he still allowed himself to go and try one last trick with Devers. I liked the twists – if I’m going to be honest I did keep thinking that their efforts would have an impact, and I suppose the previous stories gave an expectation of this so this felt like a learning experience – I felt like I hadn’t been listening! All along we’re told Seldon bases his prediction on huge numbers not individual actions and yet I got totally sucked into Devers and Barr’s mission to see the Emperor. I wouldn’t say I disliked Riose although I don’t suppose he was a particularly nice fella – not to the extent that I disliked Brodrig. He was young and ambitious and obviously knew what he was about – his failure was ultimately caused by the paranoia of the Emperor who was afraid of anybody else’s success. In terms of being annoyed – I suppose Trantor was annoying – it didn’t seem to have anybody decent at all – everybody seemed to be corrupt or open to bribes.
4. Perhaps continuing from Question 2, do you agree or disagree, and what are your thoughts on, Barr’s devotion to Seldon and his belief that the “dead hand of Seldon” was guiding the events that led up to Riose’s undoing.
I suppose, given that a lot of Barr’s knowledge of Seldon/Foundation had been gathered secondhand over a fairly lengthy period of time it would be easy to wonder why he was so confident about events. But, I think that he was also playing a game. It’s like his very confidence and calm demeanour was almost infuriating to Riose and was goading him to take the action he did. I can’t help thinking that Barr played Riose very well – he was the one who told Riose about Foundation in the first place and piqued his interest enough to want to go to war and really it helped to serve the rebellion that was brewing on his own planet so I thought it was very cleverly done. (Of course I’ve probably got the wrong end of the stick there!)
5. Did you think I was lying to you when I said in previous conversations that there are more female characters in books 2 and 3, LOL, since we didn’t get to Bayta until near the end of this portion of the read?
I knew we’d get to that part eventually! All good things to those who wait…
6. We haven’t spent much time with them yet, but talk about your initial impressions of Toran and Bayta.
Well, if first impressions are anything to go by, and unless something goes horribly amiss, I think I’m going to enjoy reading more about Toran and Bayta and I’m intrigued about this Mule not to mention the end of Chapter 13! I was pleased at how much I enjoyed reading about the two of them – it felt a little more grounded almost with the two of them new to a relationship and going to meet the ‘in-laws’. I didn’t think that I was particularly missing the inclusion of females in the stories so far but maybe on a different level I was because I thought these chapers were really good. I think Bayta is going to be resourceful and tough, she’s confident and not afraid to have her own opinions. I was really surprised about her description of Foundation – I’m probably not going to articulate this well but it felt to me like it was going down hill rather more quickly that I thought and seemed to be mimicking the mistakes of the Empire. It puts me in mind of Animal Farm – the animals want change and they’re all going to work together – but ultimately does it work? Foundation started out different, no power, small planet, clever people, not aggressive but slowly and surely they seem turning into a mini Empire!
Thanks Carl
Foundation by Isaac Asimov, Group readalong part 1
During January I am attempting to read more sci fi and as part of this I am taking part in Stainless Steel Droppings group readalong. This kicks off with the first of the Foundation novels by Isaac Asimov. Below are my thoughts and comments in response to the questions that have been posted for the first part of the readalong:
For the purpose of satisfying curiosity, is this your first time reading Foundation or have you read it before?
I’m a relative newbie to sci fi so this is my first time.
For those who have read it before, how has it held up to your memory/feelings about previous reads?
For those reading Foundation for the first time, what expectations did you have going in and has it met them or surprised you in any way?
Okay, to be honest I didn’t really have any expectations reading this for the first time. In fact I really didn’t know what to expect at all. Also, whilst I’m being honest, and don’t hate me for this, but I would never in a million years have picked up this book and my reason for saying so is totally fickle – the cover! I know you can’t judge a book by its cover but it would have just put me off – sorry, I know I’m going to get beaten with a big verbal stick now for not liking the cover and for being fickle enough to not pick up a book because of its cover but there it is. I suppose, having said that I’m now going to have to backtrack a little on the first part of my answer because I think I probably did have an inkling of an expectation that I would dislike the content purely because of the cover! And, I’ve been pleasantly surprised because after I got into the first few chapters and became aware of the structure I think it’s really good! The biggest surprise for me with this book is that I expected it to be overloaded with sci-fi-ness and it isn’t really (again don’t beat me with a big verbal stick please!), I can’t help feeling that if we took away the strange people/planet names and took out a few of the gadgets it would be like a political/historical read. I did also have an expectation that maybe quite a bit of the content would just go over my head – but again I’ve been pleasantly surprised.
What are your thoughts about the structure of the novel thus far? (I am referring to the brief glimpses of different parts of the history of the Foundation with big time gaps between events in the novel)
I actually like the structure – it’s like a series of little mini stories really that are all connected and given the timeframe involved I don’t see how it could have been structured any differently – unless there were hundreds of books that is!
What are your initial thoughts on the field of psychohistory?
I found it intriguing and I guess the whole thing comes across as plausible somehow, purely because of the numbers of people involved. But, I’m not totally convinced that, given these numbers and timeframe concerned, Dr Seldon could have been quite so precise with some of his predictions. I suppose it makes it more readable that way though. It puts me in mind of what we would call ‘destiny’ or ‘fate’?
What, if anything, is holding your interest thus far, what are you enjoying about Foundation?
What I’m really enjoying about the story is all the twists and turns of the characters and how they keep playing their own little games in order to manoeuvre this way or that. It feels like a giant game of space chess.
What, if anything, are you not enjoying about Foundation?
I don’t know that I would say I’m not enjoying anything in particular but in terms of little niggles or criticisms there have been a few instances where the speech has felt a little too familiar – things that we would say now. I’m not saying that people wouldn’t still use that same language that we do but it’s just a surprise with some of the phrases, especially when you consider how much our language has changed since for example the writing of Shakespeare. So when you consider the number of years forward that we’ve moved for this story (in fact so far forward that nobody remembers which planet humans started from) I’m not sure there wouldn’t be some differences. But, and now I’m going to talk myself out of that criticism, I think it would annoy me to read the book if the author had tried to make up new words of sentence structures. I did read another book recently where the author had attempted this and it just came across as irritating.
You may have covered this in answering the other questions, but if not, what are your thoughts/feelings about the Galactic Empire. Is it a practical thing to have a galaxy spanning government? Can you imagine such a thing and do you think it would work?
I don’t think it would work – and I don’t think it will ultimately work in this series (but that remains to be seen). It’s not like it hasn’t been attempted throughout history, the Romans, Alexander the Great, Napoleon, but in Foundation this is on such a magnificent scale to make it virtually impossible – it seems to me difficult enough for all the inhabitants of a planet to get along let alone lots of different planets on a system where they’re light years away from each other!
What are your thoughts on Hardin’s creation of a religious system in which to house scientific ideas and technology while keeping the users of that science and technology in the dark?
I thought Hardin’s invention of a religious system was inspirational in this story. He gave everybody a set of beliefs to follow which they just stuck to dogmatically, retaining all the knowledge to the Foundation. In doing so it’s almost like the rest of the system is going backwards and losing the knowledge they once had as they become more and more reliant upon these beliefs. It feels like ultimately the Foundation will have become the big ‘I am’ and nobody will be in a position to threaten them.
Thanks Carl for these questions/discussion points. I look forward to the next set.
Lynn




