The Lies of Locke Lamora by Scott Lynch, final readalong

And so we come to the end of our readalong and what an amazing experience this has been.  Brought to us by some really amazing hosts and involving so many brilliant bloggers.  It’s been great:

Even though this is the final week – you’re never too late to join in (well, you’re a bit late but you can still go back to the readalong and check out the questions) and pick up the threads of discussion.  More to the point, you’re never to late to pick up this book and be lost in the world of Camorr and the lives of the Gentlemen Bastards.  So don’t wait any longer.  The following will however contain spoilers so if you haven’t read the book you might want to stop reading now!  This week’s instalment brought us constant tension and laugh out loud moments.  Personally I loved the whole scene with Locke in the Tower – firstly coming face to face with Merragio whilst wearing the clothes he’s stolen from him and then bumping into the Grey King as well.  Without further ado the questions and discussions follow.  The hosts for this blog are below:

Dark Cargo
Little Red Reviewer
SFSignal
MyAwfulReviews

1.       The Thorn of Camorr is renowned – he can beat anyone in a fight and he steals from the rich to give to the poor.  Except of course that clearly most of the myths surrounding him are based on fantasy and not fact.  Now that the book is finished how do you feel the man himself compares to his legend.  Did you feel that he changed as the story progressed and, if so, how did this make you feel about him by the time the conclusion was reached?

I think to an extent the legend that surrounds the Thorn is one of those typical snowball type of theories which gathers size and momentum as it goes downhill.  You could argue that Locke is useless in a fight and also that he doesn’t give his money away to the poor – all of which is true.  But, you could also say that he’s never shed blood in any of his jobs, he’s a really big softie (as the Spider herself acknowledged after he returned to the Tower to save the nobility), that he managed to defend himself quite well against the Grey King and also that he paid rather a huge death offering by having the plague ship with all his stolen talons on board (which he could have kept).  So, really his reputation is not that far from the mark.  I did think he changed as the story progressed.  I think at the start of the story you didn’t get too much of an understanding for the feelings he had for his fellow GBs but by the end you could certainly feel the strength of feeling and the regard he held them in.  He called them his brothers – which I thought was really rather touching!  By the end of the story I definitely liked him, a lot.  He proved that as well as being able to plot elaborate cons he was able to think on his feet, act under pressure and show that he cared not only for his own little select gang of bandits but also for many more people as well.  Funnily enough I think by the end of the story he fitted the description attributed to the Thorn much more than at the start.

2.       Scott Lynch certainly likes to give his leading ladies some entertaining and strong roles to play.  We have the Berangia sisters – and I definitely wouldn’t like to get on the wrong side of them or their blades plus Dona Vorchenza who is the Spider and played a very cool character – even play acting to catch the Thorn.  How did you feel about the treatment the sisters and Dona received at the hands of Jean and Locke – were you surprised, did it seem out of character at all or justified?

I really liked both of the above characters to an extent.  They’re certainly not soft and fluffy and I don’t think we’d ever be friends.  But, I had a certain type of respect for the Berangia sisters and the way they were so kickass.  And, the Spider, playing at Locke’s game really and allowing people’s own misconceptions to hide her secret identity for this length of time.  All that being said, I felt no sympathy for the Berangias.  They knew what they were doing.  They plotted to catch and kill Jean and they were completely confident in their own abilities.  The fact that they lost is just really too bad!  I know who I preferred to win!  I did have a certain sympathy for Dona Vorchenza when Locke socked her in the jaw, but he had the decency himself to feel bad for his own course of action and really I can’t see how he could have done any differently.  She shouldn’t have  under-estimated him but she made the mistake of thinking of them both as intellectuals.  But, if Locke had remained trapped – she would undoubtedly have made him suffer and would not have shown sympathy.  Plus, if you trap something in a corner it’s going to lunge at you eventually.

 3.       Towards the end we saw a little more of the magic and the history of the Bondsmagi.  The magic, particularly with the use of true names, reminds me a little of old fashioned witchcraft or even voodoo.  But, more than that I was fascinated after reading the interlude headed ‘The Throne in Ashes’ about the Elderglass and the Elders and why their structures were able to survive even against the full might of the Bondsmagi – do you have any theories about this do you think it’s based on one of our ancient civilisations or maybe similar to a myth??

Well, the most obvious comparison that I could come to with this would be the Roman Empire.  The Roman’s went all over conquering and ruling – but they didn’t always stay and yet they left a legacy behind wherever they went.  But, the thing I was thinking about most when reading about the Elderglass was the City of Atlantis – and don’t ask me why – I can’t explain myself but I’ve always pictured Atlantis as being contained in a huge, glass bubble!

4.       We have previously discussed Scott Lynch’s use of description and whether it’s too much or just spot on.  Having got into the last quarter of the book where the level of tension was seriously cranked up – did you still find, the breaks for interludes and the descriptions useful or, under the circumstances did it feel more like a distraction?

I actually still enjoyed the interludes and the description.  I did have a moment towards the end where I was almost cursing and thinking ‘not bloody now for godssake’ but then as usual with these little mini stories I got sucked in.  To some extent I do think it lessens the tension but on the plus side it felt as though it made me slow down and think a bit more than I otherwise might of and so I accredit this with stopping me from just simply racing ahead and finishing as quickly as possible.

5.       Now that the book has finished how did you feel about the conclusion and the eventual reveal about the Grey King and more to the point the motivations he declared for such revenge – does it seem credible, were you expecting much worse or something completely different altogether?

I really enjoyed the conclusion – particularly the whole Grey King and Locke fighting to the death scenario (which does make me sound a bit bloodthirsty!).  Just, they both had their own individual reasons and at that particular juncture they both pretty much hated each other – Locke because of the GBs and all that he and Jean had also been put through and the Grey King because of his sisters, his plans being thwarted and the sinking of his means of escape together with all the money which he thought he’s gained!  It’s difficult to remember how I originally felt about the motives of the Grey King, I think what he and his family suffered was terrible but I kind of lost all sympathy for him because he didn’t care who he affected in his plans for revenge.   He just went hell for leather and swept everyone up in is plot.  The GBs had never done anything to hurt or offend him and look how badly they fared in his scheming.  I suppose it would be childish to say he was unfair – but he was!

6.       Were you surprised that Locke, being given two possible choices (one of which could possibly mean he would miss his chance for revenge on the Grey King) chose to go back to the Tower  – especially given that (1) he would have difficulty in getting into the building (2) he would have difficulty in convincing them about the situation and (3) he would have difficulty in remaining free afterwards? Did anyone else nearly pee their pants when Locke and the rest were carrying the sculptures up to the roof garden?

I actually was surprised that Locke returned to the Tower to rescue the nobility but I think it’s one of the finer turning points of the story which helps to emphasise the true nature of the man.  And, I was so tense when they were all carrying the sculptures up to the top – even though I knew the ending.  That whole wraithstone thing was so nasty!

7.       Finally, the other question I would chuck in here is that, following the end of the book I was intrigued to check out some of the reviews of LOLL and noticed that the negative reviews mentioned the use of profanity.  How did you feel about this – was it excessive? Just enough? Not enough?

I really didn’t find the swearing a problem at all, in fact, on rereading I was surprised because I thought it seemed that there was less of it than I remembered!  I probably wouldn’t mind a bit more – it makes me laugh when they’re all cussing at each other and the air turns blue!

8.       Okay one further, and probably most important but very quick question – having finished, will you pick up the sequel, Red Seas Under Red Skies?

Hell yes!

39 Responses to “The Lies of Locke Lamora by Scott Lynch, final readalong”

  1. rosesthingamajig's avatar Rose's Thingamajig

    I hated the Berangias women. I think it’s probably because of the revelation that they slowly and painfully killed Barsavi’s wife. I don’t think there’s any excuse for betrayal or disloyalty. And the way they revelled in the ‘identical throats slit by identical twins.’ *tearing up* 😦 They were just horrible people as far as I can see.

    I love the Roman Empire comparison, it could explain a lot. It depends on if the Elderglass is found in any other cities… I have no theories on that one at all, really.

    • lynnsbooks's avatar lynnsbooks

      OMG I forgot about Barsavi’s wife – they really were a couple of bitches weren’t they!
      I don’t really have any ideas about the Elderglass – I guess it’s just one of those things that we’ll never really know about – a bit like Stonehenge – lots of theories but no realy substance.
      Lynn 😀

      • Grace's avatar Grace

        I was okay with the Berangias up until they killed Barsavi. That was the point that I began to hate them, and they deserved everything Jean gave them.

    • My Awful Reviews's avatar My Awful Reviews

      I think it’s comments like these that show that the Berangias sisters were really good characters. Anytime you can piss a reader off and have him or her screaming for blood, you’ve pretty much done your job as a writer 😉

      • @lynnsbooks's avatar lynnsbooks

        Definitely – sometimes you can’t help feeling sorry for a character or think that they maybe didn’t get what they deserved but, even though I thought the Berangia Sisters were great – I thought they got exactly what they deserved. And they went out fighting which I figure is how they would have wanted to go out!
        Lynn 😀

  2. Michael H's avatar Michael

    The Roman Empire comparison is great and one that I hadn’t considering. (Another reason to enjoy the read along…so many new ideas to help flavor the book and make me consider a re-read in a couple of years).

    As I said in my post, the amount of cussin’ included in the novel was more noticeable at first, but it quickly faded into part of the general tapestry of the novel. I think the reason it is so noticeable (for me) is that in many cases epic fantasy doesn’t have this level of cussin’ and such. And that may be one reason I liked the books so much–Lynch is willing to turn the conventions of epic fantasy on their ear as it were. Reminded me a bit of The Steel Remains by Richard K. Morgan that really turns the conventions of epic fantasy on their head.

    • lynnsbooks's avatar lynnsbooks

      Like I said to Rose – I don’t really have any theories about the Elderglass and I don’t suppose we’ll find out, it’s clearly a legacy from an earlier civilisation. I think I quite like the fact that we don’t get an explanation as to who built it or how – a bit like the magic – it just ‘IS’!

      I didn’t really pick up on the cussin so much – maybe it’s because I’ve already read it – it never felt over done or just thrown in for shock value!
      Lynn 😀
      Not heard of Steel Remains – must go and take a look. Thanks

  3. kaitharshayr's avatar kaitharshayr

    Atlantis also popped into my mind when answering question 3, as with ancient empires as well but then I dismissed it as even though they have left legacies a lot of the buildings are in ruins, whereas in my mind at least I imagine the Elderglass structures being much more intact. Maybe their magically enhanced which is why the structures are still in place and haven’t collapsed after all this time.

    • lynnsbooks's avatar lynnsbooks

      Never thought about the Elderglass being magically enhanced – that’s a great theory – particularly as they remained intact during the war with the Bondsmagi!
      Lynn 😀

  4. scruffymorris's avatar scruffymorris

    I actually barely thought about the profanity until I read your question. I had to flick back through the book to remind myself that there was any.

    • lynnsbooks's avatar lynnsbooks

      I know what you mean – I thought it was just me and maybe I’m sort of totally desensitised to it (or a raging potty mouth!). There does seem to be a lot of criticism of the cussing though and even Lynch himself seems to think he overdid it but personally it just appeared natural the way it was included and not gratuitous.
      Lynn 😀

      • SueCCCP (@SueCCCP)'s avatar SueCCCP (@SueCCCP)

        I think Mr Lynch got the level of profanity spot on (as with most other things) and shouldn’t listen to the criticism about it. It seems like some people are totally unable to accept that other people do not behave / speak as they want them to and will complain about it. Their loss: they missed out on an excellent read.

  5. Amy's avatar Amy

    I had major respect for the Berangia sisters and their knives. They’re great characters and got what was coming to them. Jean was one of my favorite characters so that scene had me wanting to jump pages ahead to make sure he made out alive. So glad he did!

    Locke’s an interesting character and I do agree that he changes. He went through too much not too. In the end, he’s still a decent human being, even if he’s thief. 🙂

    • lynnsbooks's avatar lynnsbooks

      I know – I was scared for Jean (probably because I also respected the Berangia sisters) – but I have read it before so I could afford to take my time a little bit more this time when reading that scene (if that doesn’t sound too weird taking your time to read a fight scene!) And I could also stop and make sure I was breathing.
      Lynn 😀

  6. Jeremy F's avatar Jeremy F

    OMG! Wasn’t it so cool when Jean revealed himself under his cloak and mask to the Berangias? I pictured it like the scene from the Matrix when Neo shakes the dust off himself in the subway and is just ready to kick SERIOUS ASS! Oh man I should go listen to that again.

    Also, I really enjoyed your questions this week. I think there will be some great discussion this week!

  7. The Lies of Locke Lamora Read Along Part V « Darkcargo

    […] we are at the end of the book, with our final snappy questions provided by Lynn’s Book Blog. While a good chunk of the first part of the book may have been set up, the ending was all action. […]

  8. lynnsbooks's avatar lynnsbooks

    Hi Jeremy
    Yes, I loved it when Jean took his mask off – such a great scene! And, the Berangia sisters were no pushovers – they meant business so it wasn’t as though Jean was just a dead cert!
    I really enjoyed the final scene of Locke’s where he told the Grey King that he only had to hold on until Jean arrived! Made me laugh which was a bit of a relief in the midst of all the tension.
    Lynn 😀

    • Genki Jason's avatar Genki Jason

      I liked the way Locke replayed that part of his history by holding on to the Grey King and then pulled the greatest con of his life! That scene was genuinely brilliant!

      • lynnsbooks's avatar lynnsbooks

        I know – it gave me that tingle, like goosebumps!
        Lynn 😀

  9. Genki Jason's avatar Genki Jason

    I liked the comment about the Roman Empire. As soon as they decamped from their colonies in Britain/France etc. the native populations appropriated/wrecked the buildings and roads and adapted them for their own purposes during the dark ages. The people inhabiting these Elderglass buildings are doing the same thing more or less.

    Anyway I wish the Berangia sisters had gone out in a more epic way. It was low-key and believable but I thought they were too cool to get killed in the manner they did!

    Also, I read The Steel Remains a few years ago – full of sex and iolence and cool/powerful ancient civilisations.

  10. lynnsbooks's avatar lynnsbooks

    I must admit that the Berangia sisters were pretty cool. It’s a shame that they died – I could have pictured them popping up in a future book trying to exact revenge on Locke for the death of their brother. But, I suppose once they’d gone down that route with Jean it was always going to be one or the other (my money and heart were on Jean of course).
    Lynn 😀

  11. nrlymrtl's avatar nrlymrtl

    One thing I really enjoyed about this book, is that our heroes get hurt and they stay hurt.They need time to heal and regroup. They are not all-powerful. In fact, at the end, we leave Jean and Locke licking their wounds and for a hidey hole to regain their strength in.

    • SueCCCP (@SueCCCP)'s avatar SueCCCP (@SueCCCP)

      You’re right, it is always nice to have a hero who is mortal and who gets hurt properly: it shows that violence has consequences and adds to the realism of the book.

      • Redhead's avatar Redhead

        i like a man who isn’t afraid to be vulnerable. 😉

    • RealBooks4ever's avatar RealBooks4ever

      Hi nrlymrtl, I also really liked the aspect that the characters needed time to heal. It contributed to making the whole story more believable.

  12. Redhead's avatar Redhead

    ” I did have a moment towards the end where I was almost cursing and thinking ‘not bloody now for godssake’ but then as usual with these little mini stories I got sucked in”

    Yes, that exactly! You don’t want a break in the action, but at the same time the interludes are so wonderfully enlightening that you really want to read the flashback, even if it means a break in the action. and of course the interlude has something to do with what’s happening right now, so you get to jump back into the action with more info and more blood lust.

    I adore Dona Vorchenza! yes, Locke punched in the face, and that wasn’t very nice. . . but what was he supposed to do? politely ask her to leave him alone? yeah right! She’s such a great character, I wish we’d met her earlier in the book.

    that scene at the end, with The Grey King and Locke, and it’s just the two of them, and the Grey King is watching his ship burn, and Locke knows he sucks with a sword, and the Grey King is like “you’re not very good at this, are you?”. . . I am SO biting my nails and freaking out everytime I read that! i LOVE that whole scene, especially the end, where Locke wins, even though it’s the kind of winning that feels just as shitty as losing.

    • lynnsbooks's avatar lynnsbooks

      The end was really tense wasn’t it – and also really quite sad. Even though Locke has won it’s not a punching the air type of feeling. In fact doesn’t he actually break down and cry at that point?
      Lynn :d

  13. SueCCCP (@SueCCCP)'s avatar SueCCCP (@SueCCCP)

    BTW I meant to say: thanks for the great questions. They have certainly stirred up plenty of debate! 🙂

    • lynnsbooks's avatar lynnsbooks

      All the debate for this full readalong has been brilliant. So much better than just simply reading a book and then putting it back on the shelf, this just makes you think so much more about the detail and then all the opinions of the other readalong-ers – makes you constantly rethink your own opinions. I really like that.
      Lynn 😀

  14. Felix's avatar Felix Pearce

    I’m up! http://felixpearce.wordpress.com/2012/04/08/lies-of-locke-lamora-the-final-post/

    I agree about the Roman Empire idea, too – except giant, incomprehensible alien Romans, presumably not wearing silly hats!

    • @lynnsbooks's avatar lynnsbooks

      Ha, LOL. Definitely aliens! Come on though – silly hats are at least good for the comedy value!
      Lynn 😀

  15. Allie's avatar Allie

    I like your point in #5. The Grey King would have had my sympathy, too, if he hadn’t decided that all of Camorr deserved to die. Locke even pointed out that many children hadn’t even been born yet when the Grey King’s family was killed, but he didn’t care. I guess that’s one difference between Locke and the Grey King– Locke didn’t physically hurt anyone except for those who actually wronged him. You could even argue that with Dona Vorchenza. A punch in exchange for a needle in the neck. I think Locke would never target an entire city en masse, like the Grey King did.

    • lynnsbooks's avatar lynnsbooks

      Basically the Grey King had just gone too far – I think he was a little bit (just a tad!) insane. He was so hellbent on his own revenge that he had no perspective or sympathy for anyone else. Just like involving Locke – no reason to do that really – and it turned out to be his downfall! he shouldn’t have dragged so many innocents into his plot!
      Lynn 😀

  16. Ines's avatar Ines

    Some of the interludes had me thinking the same way. 🙂 Why, now?! Let me get back to the story, I want to know what happens next!
    Which is also one of the reason I ended up reading the book before 5 weeks were up.

    • lynnsbooks's avatar lynnsbooks

      I don’t think Lynch uses interludes in the next book? Or maybe I’ve just forgotten. I ended up being really quite interested in them in that the’re a bit like a fable. You read the story but there’s always a message being given.
      Lynn 😀

  17. Bente's avatar Bente

    Your answer to #1… fantastic!

    “I can’t explain myself but I’ve always pictured Atlantis as being contained in a huge, glass bubble!”
    That’s just what I thought about as well! If there ever existed a place where Elderglass would look close to natural it would be in Atlantis…

    • @lynnsbooks's avatar lynnsbooks

      I’m sure I saw a really old film or something where Atlantis was encased in glass under the ocean! Or, I’ve just dreamt that. LOL
      Lynn 😀

  18. Froggy's avatar Froggy

    Locke is like a giant fluffy kitten, all funny and silly and sweet and then you corner him and bam! He stick his tiny teeth and claws in your face. Not so painful, but utterly annoying. Now he’s probably a teenage cat, sad to have seen his broters run over by a car, and ready to conquer the world with all his feline courage.
    Err well, maybe I shouldn’t eat this much sugar…
    The Spider stabbed him with a giant knitting needle! I would have hit harder, no pity for the old ladies 😀

    • @lynnsbooks's avatar lynnsbooks

      ha ha, no sympathy for the old ladies – well they can’t just go around stabbing people with knitting needles – rude!
      Locke is a kitten – that makes Jean a Panther! Oh hell yeah!
      Lynn 😀

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