Second Foundation by Issac Asimov, second group read along
2 March 2012 
And, so we’ve finally finished the three Issac Asimov novels as part of a sci-fi readalong being hosted by Carl at Stainless Steel Droppings. It makes me sort of sad that it’s come to an end. The discussions have been great and I’ve enjoyed reading some sci fi much more than I expected and actually understood what was going on (I was expecting to feel like a raging dunce!) Below are the final questions for discussion but please don’t read these if you haven’t read these novels as they will definitely SPOIL the plot!
1. Now that the trilogy is over, discuss your feelings on Asimov’s portrayal of female characters?
I think that Asimov did a really good job portraying the females in the story and gave both of them key roles in the plot. I suppose reading the book in the year 2012 they did come across as a little old fashioned but I think given when these stories were written he does a good job and I think it was probably quite risky for him to include such strong female roles because it can deter some male readers.
2. After all the back and forth mind control of the first part of Second Foundation, what was your state of mind reading this second section of the book? Were you suspicious of everyone? Did you figure things out? Were you just going along for the ride?
To be honest I wasn’t really trying to second guess the ending although I had started to feel as though the location of Second Foundation would be hidden amongst the systems we already knew – I just didn’t know where! In terms of all the mind control flipping back and forth I was just enjoying it as and when it was revealed.
3. Throughout the three novels we were shown a couple of versions of Trantor. Which is more appealing to you? Which would you rather visit?
I preferred the latter version of Trantor. I didn’t like the earlier version before the collapse – I thought it was all too glossy and fickle. I liked the way towards the end that Trantor had actually turned a corner, soil had been revealed and plants had started to grow once again on the surface.
4. How have your thoughts about Hari Seldon, his plan, and either or both Foundations changed, or not, during the course of these three novels?
I feel like I’ve come a long way! We’ve twisted and turned along the way. Been told one thing, then another, liked one person and then found that we didn’t like them, believed there was one Foundation only to find there was two and believed them to be poles apart when in fact they were cheek by jowl. I must hand it to Asimov he’s a master of strategy. I feel like his nickname should be the Trickster.
5. What, if anything, surprised you in this last half of the book? How do you feel Second Foundation held up compared to the other two books in the trilogy?
The biggest surprise for me in this half of the book was the discovery that Arcadia had been mind controlled from her birth – I hadn’t really understood just how far in advance the second Foundation people had been planning. I think this was probably my favourite installment. Particularly the first half which I though was gripping.
6. Did any themes stand out for you in this series? What are you taking away from the experience of reading the Foundation trilogy?
The particular theme that I think comes across is that no one is perfect. I liked the way that the control changed from control based on religious belief, then commerce then mind control. I also think that Asimov was trying to demonstrate that in spite of who is in charge they all have their own foibles.
I think what I’m taking away from this experience is: engagement with a great group of bloggers who have really active minds and get involved in some fantastic discussions. At the end of the day reading is a bit of a solo pursuit and so getting involved in a readalong at least allows you to explore the story more fully and also awakens ideas that you didn’t know you had. It also sometimes highlights different points of view and I found it really interesting how I may or may not like a character in contrast with some of the others. I also have surprised myself and found that I liked sci fi a whole lot more than I thought. I admit that I need to STOP judging a book by it’s cover – because I would never have picked these up otherwise! and I feel almost pleased with myself that I took part, completed the readalong and didn’t struggle too much to ‘get’ the plot. Although, again, I readily admit that I didn’t second guess anything.
Thanks again Carl for hosting.
Lynn 😀
Books and travelling with Lynn 
The twists and turns were so much fun! I would prefer an aged Trantor to gloss any day, but it would be awesome to see them both. I want a movie, a really well-made one, based on these books now! I feel the same about group reads. I get so much more out of a book, and I love reading what others have to say about it.
A movie would be great – I’m surprised it’s not already been done! Although it’s perhaps as well it wasn’t made sooner, at least we now have the special effects available to make this into a good job. It would be good to see.
I suppose it would be good to see the ‘glossy’ Trantor – it didn’t appeal to me as much but on reflection I think it was all the political maneouvering that put me off the place really.
Lynn 😀
I was pretty upset when I find out about Arkady and was like “No! That shouldn’t be happening!” I was pretty meh about the Second Foundationers, but when I found out that she had been mind controlled from birth I developed an active hatred of them. It was bittersweet to watch her go back to her life while being someone else’s pawn the whole time. I think this is one of the first books that I’ve ever read where I wanted the good guys to lose.
I know – I think this is why the first half of the book was more enjoyable for me. I really enjoyed the conflict with the Mule and the second Foundationers but it felt really manipulative that Arkady had been used in that way since birth. I still think it’s a great series though and it’s generated such a lot of discussion and different opinions which makes it really intriguing.
Lynn 😀
The showdown between the Mule and the Second Foundation was pretty cool. I’m with Grace, the whole Arkady thing was just a mean trick. I think she mentioned on her blog that at least the Mule was honest about his mind control. That is a good point. I still can’t really identify the good guys and bad guys in this series. The lines were blurred all over the place.
This series was awesome for generating discussion! And now I am one of your followers and I look forward to hearing about more of the books that you read. Thanks for joining in and it has been a pleasure meeting you.
It’s been greating having these discussions – such a brilliant group on this readalong. I’m joining in on the Scott Lynch readalong – are you going to take part it should be really good! I’ve already read both books but it’s a good idea to read them again as No.3 comes out this summer. I can’t wait! Plus Scott Lynch is publishing a weekly blog giving extra background just to get involved – which is really cool! I’m always checking out your progress – I suppose you’ve already got enough books to read without adding more but if you get chance and you don’t mind fantasy (you did enjoy LOTR after all!) it would be great if you joined in (if you haven’t already?) It’s being hosted by Andrea at the Little Red Reviewer – there are a number of other blogs also hosting but I don’t have their names.
Hope to chat again soon.
Lynn 😀
Being a male I know that I take risks every time I open my mouth, or in this case unleash my fingers on the keyboard, but I don’t mind the “old fashioned” nature of the characters when they are well written and/or break out of their gender roles of the time period for any reason. From purely a historical perspective I enjoy being amazed when authors, especially male authors, manage to break out of the stereotypical mode when portraying women in SFF novels.
I have yet to meet a male reader, at least an adult one, who is deterred by strong female characters. By man-hating characters maybe, but those same guys are deterred by female-hating male characters as well. Now I know they exist, don’t get me wrong, but thankfully the male readers I know LOVE to read and I think that love of reading broadens ones’ mind and allows one to enjoy same sex and opposite sex characters if they are well written. Unfortunately your statement though is what I believe was dead on at the time, that most editors/publishers had the idea that strong or non-traditional female characters wouldn’t sell. And maybe they wouldn’t, yet Asimov and Heinlein, as two examples, both proved that a lie with many of their best selling works.
I’m with you, give me ruined Trantor. Although from purely a wanting to visit perspective I think it would be amazing to visit a place like Trantor. It would be pretty mind-blowing.
This was a good book. Like the others it seemed to have a different feel from one half to the next, but this one had such good suspense with it the whole time that each section was equally gripping in its own way. Asimov demonstrated a great deal of plotting strategy with this one, you are correct. I’ll be interested to check out his other, later written, Foundation novels at some point to see if he maintained this effective method of storytelling or if he lost something with it over the years.
Your final comments are music to my ears. I love it when people discover, or are reminded, or whatever, that they enjoy science fiction. Makes my heart skip a beat. And I can so relate to the joy of discovering that these books were pretty amazing. Although I like Whelan’s covers a lot, neither of the first two would have ever caused me to just pick this series up. The cover for Second Foundation though really did grab hold of me and it finally tipped me over the edge when I found a copy of it for sale.
It is amazing to read a book with others. I got so many different things out of the story this time through it than I did the first time, and I’ve realized with each of these group reads over the last year that I’ve learned things about all the participants that have been exciting and eye-opening. It has caused me to read things differently than I might have on my own and has made each of the experiences very, very special. I’m so glad you joined in, and hope you’ll consider coming along to the next one, whatever that may be.
Hello Carl
I think I should have been a bit more clear with my thoughts about Asimov’s female characters – my comments probably come across as critical which isn’t intended. I thought he made a great job and if his characters come across a little old fashioned I think I meant that just as a reflection of the time in which they were written. I was reading on Little Red Reviewer’s blog recently – after she went to the Expo (not sure what it’s called!) – that Scott Lynch and a few other authors were saying that they received a lot of negative comments from readers about the strong female roles they’d written – I was really surprised with that and I think that’s why I thought Asimov was brave to write these roles (particularly given how many years ago this was). I’m glad authors such as Asimov wrote these roles – not to mention Tolkien – he wrote some great females. Personally, I’ve never come across somebody who wouldn’t read a book because of a strong female lead and I’m glad you haven’t either!
I will definitely join you in future readalongs – you have a really interesting bunch of people with some great well considered perspectives and you are so thoughtful with your replies. It’s been a pleasure reading along Also I think it’s brilliant that even though you’d already read this you managed to get something different out of it this time around!
I do readily admit that I have a problem about the whole book cover thing – need to get over myself I suppose – I shouldnt’ let the cover distract me, after all it’s what’s in between the covers that count. (You have to admit though – some covers are hideous! LOL)
Looking forward to your next group readalong already 😀
Lynn
Actually it was me who should have been more clear. I didn’t think you were being critical at all. Your thoughts just made me go off on this internal dialogue and I picked up somewhere in that conversation and started writing. It wasn’t actually directed at you at all, your writing just sparked off that thought train.
So please, don’t think I was directing anything negative against your comments at all, I completely agree with you. And I especially believe that there was, and in some publishing circles still is, this idea that strong female characters won’t sell. Or if they do allow them then they somehow can’t show any kind of “feminine” side. As if we aren’t all the complicated creatures that we are.
I judge books by their covers all the time, so you aren’t alone. I was just posting about that on another site a few minutes ago, how the new UK covers for Scott Westerfield’s Uglies books would never cause me to give them a second glance.
No, I didn’t think you were being negative – I thought I’d actually been a bit unfair to Asimov – or at least not been very articulate.
Have you read the Scott Westerfield books? Funnily enough I actually picked up all three of them (on sale and really cheap) but haven’t read them. The thing is I just buy too many books and then I put them in a pile, then I pile more books on top and so eventually the ones at the bottom just get ignored!
I’ll definitely take part in your Mistborn readalong (if you don’t mind)? I actually already have the first book (I just checked) and it’ll give me the impetus to move it up the pile!
Lynn 😀
I haven’t read the Westerfield for much the same reason–too much to read. I love the U.S. covers though and have been tempted to pick them up in the past. If I ever see them in good condition really cheap I will no doubt do so.