Second Foundation by Issac Asimov, Group Readalong part 1

Posted On 20 February 2012

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Just finished reading Chapters 1-9 of Second Foundation as part of a group readalong I am taking part in hosted by Carl over at Stainless Steel Droppings.

I don’t read a lot of sci fi but wanted to branch out some more and this series has been really great.  This weeks questions and discussion points below: (Beware of spoilers!)

1.  How have your perceptions of the Mule and his form of governing grown or changed, or not, after spending more time with him in this novel? 

I like the Mule less in this novel than previously (in fact I’ve lost any feelings of sympathy that I once had for him).  He seems more sinister somehow or perhaps I just totally misread him previously.  When he first appeared under the persona of the Clown I wanted to believe he was okay and he almost seemed a little sad which made me feel more forgiving towards him.  Also, although I didn’t agree with his methods he didn’t appear to take casualties if he could avoid doing so.  Now, he appears to have wiped out any traces of the clown almost as though when he lost his only friend  he lost his last shred of humanity.  He’s now wiping out full planets without a second thought and he seems much more vindictive.  I’m also not totally sure why he was so hell bent on discovering the Second Foundation and bending that to his will as well.  He already had the whole system in his pocket and yet he was ruthlessly determined in spite of the fact that most people didn’t believe that the Second Foundation even existed.

2.  Having finally gotten a glimpse into the mysterious Second Foundation, what are your feelings/thoughts about this group and their methods (as revealed thus far)

A bit mixed at the moment to be honest.  I found the conflict with the Mule the guy from Second Foundation fascinating.  Talk about twists and turns!  Again we seem to have a planet whose inhabitants are determined to keep within the confines of the Seldon prediction.  It’s strange that there are so many people absolutely set on ensuring this prophecy succeeds.  You can’t help wondering what would the difference have been without all the interventions.  I’m waiting to see how this new element develops – I couldn’t help thinking however that the tactics used to eliminate the threat posed by the Mule were so similar to the tactics he would have used himself!  I don’t totally agree with this mind manipulation ‘thing’, however, I was definitely not rooting for the Mule during the confrontation so was actually relieved to a certain extent (even though I didn’t approve the methods).  I’d almost started to believe the Mule was really invincible!

3.  Has your understanding of the Seldon Plan changed at all with the revelations about the plan and the Second Foundationers near the end of this first part of our reading? Looking back does it alter any ideas you had about Seldon and his predictions?

I think I’m still just as much in the dark as when I first started to read. I had no inkling of the Second Foundation until the point it was actually revealed (I did wonder how Seldon could have predicted things so accurately given how much things would change and develop in the years since he made his prediction and the fact that he would have no knowledge of the effect that these developments would actually mean) but, still waiting to see how things pan out.  I’m loving all the secrecy about the location of Second Foundation – I feel as though it’s going to be something really obvious that I should have spotted – hidden in plain sight maybe!  I like the way we’ve moved on through the books – we’ve had power through force, through economics and now it seems through intellect.  Very intriguing and thought provoking.  (I do feel like a big dunce for being so in the dark with how the plot will develop but on this occasion I’m actually not even attempting to second guess the outcome which is unusual for me.

4.  A simple one: How did you feel the first part of Second Foundation held up in comparison to the sections we’ve previously read?

Again, similar to the previous book, I really enjoyed this first half and am really looking forward to reading the concluding chapters.  I’m still enjoying the style of writing.  It’s sort of minimalistic yet manages to say exactly enough to put you in the picture, keep you entertained and make you keep turning the pages. Quickly.

5.  It is perhaps not surprising that Asimov’s second important female character in the trilogy would be a direct descendent of the first.  What do you think of young Arcadia “Arkady” Darell?

I like her – she’s got a lot of nous! It will be interesting to see what role she eventually comes to play and I think the link with Bayta is good to read about – and makes you keep her story fresh in your memory.

Thanks for the questions Carl.  Look forward to all the discussions.

Lynn 😀

7 Responses to “Second Foundation by Issac Asimov, Group Readalong part 1”

  1. TBM's avatar TBM

    My feelings about the Mule changed drastically as well. In the second I sorta liked him, but in this novel I really started to cheer against him. I couldn’t really put my finger on the reason why since in the second book he was taking over other planets as well. But you might be on to something, he was known as the sad, abused clown in the second novel. Maybe that was the reason why I couldn’t cheer against him. Also Asimov showed his “evilness” more in this one.

  2. @lynnsbooks's avatar lynnsbooks

    I can’t help feeling that Asimov is manipulating all of us all along! One minute we like somebody and the next we don’t *waggles fingers* It’s spooky 😀
    Lynn

    • TBM's avatar TBM

      LOL…that might be the case. It has crossed my mind and hopefully we will have an answer at the end.

  3. Shelley's avatar Shelley

    I’m pretty sure the reason he is determine to destroy the Second Foundation is because it is the only thing that comes close to being able to destroy him.
    I loved all of the twists! That was some entertaining writing.
    A complete understanding of the Seldon plan still seems a little out of my reach. I can’t tell if that’s just laziness on my part, or if that’s the way I’m supposed to feel. My perspective on it keeps changing.

    • @lynnsbooks's avatar lynnsbooks

      I never thought about the Second Foundation being the only threat to the Mule – and as it turns out it was a very real threat. I’m kind of enjoying being lazy with this one and just letting it reveal it’s secrets gradually.
      Lynn 😀

  4. Grace's avatar Grace

    I’m so curious about the location of the Second Foundation, although I half suspect that they have no physical base… it’s so intriguing! Asimov did a good job with the suspense on that, and I really hope that he decides to answer that question for us.

    I loved the battle of wits between the Mule and the Second Foundation; it was so neat to see the way that both sides tried to manipulate each other. I think that in this case I rooted for the Second Foundation purely out of curiosity, and I wanted to see if they could think of a way to outwit the Mule.

  5. Carl V.'s avatar Carl V.

    I think it is a real strength of the story that at one point we all feel some degree of sympathy and understanding for the Mule and yet as the story progresses there is certainly an opportunity to have a change of heart concerning him. He develops into a real madman in some respects and it is interesting to witness that progression, even if it comes to us in big leaps of time. I agree with your assessment of him. But then in the back of my mind I also realize that he did one good thing in that he apparently let Bayta and her husband go free and let them live their lives. The Mule is a much more interesting and complex character in hindsight, I believe.

    I think because Seldon’s prediction was that the world would enter a period of thousands of years of barbarism it gives everyone in the know an incentive to make sure that doesn’t happen. Even if ‘status quo’ wasn’t ideal I think it is human nature to fight for status quo to remain when we are given some idea that things could get much, much worse.

    The Mule certainly seemed invincible, didn’t he? As such it makes sense that Asimov would have to have characters who could ‘fight fire with fire’ as it were. But it does make for an interesting conundrum for the reader. The battle was really exciting, but then afterwards you are left with the realization that there are essentially a bunch of Mules out there, only “maybe” ones with a little less pure self-interest involved. But does that justify their mind control techniques?

    You are right, each book, heck each section of each book, reveals a different way in which power is assumed and used to move things forward. It keeps each section of the story fresh because you just don’t know what it coming next, and it does make for interesting conversation.

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